Camshaft

[Buckshot]

Just got the car now, I'm working on it. I just purchased an "Edebrock Performer RPM cam". Will my stock 305 RS 1991 Camaro handle it without making the computer act up? If it does what is the fix? I just ordered the Hypertech computer chip and a B&M shift kit (for this weak feelin car.....)

Any comments or suggestions are apprciated.

[Chvywolf]

Whats the specs on the cam, and what kind of cam is it? i.e. Flat tappet, rollor

[86IROC]

If it's the cam I'm thinking of.....WAY TOO BIG for a TBI 305. Like .488/.510 lift & around 224+ duration at .050"

[Chvywolf]

If it's the cam i'm thinking of, it's flat tappet and won't even work cause it's a roller engine. Unless of course he buys a new timing chain for a non-roller cam along with cam button and what ever else is needed to convert to non-roller.

[Jeremey]

That cam is on the large side. Lots of overlap so it wont work with a computer. A cam button is not needed when converting a roller block back to flat tappet. A flat tappet lifter keeps the cam from walking so the cam button isnt needed.

[Buckshot]

Its an "Edebrock Performer RPM" cam as sold in Summitracing.com cataloge for small block chevy engines.

The 1991 305 I have is the 170 HP motor that comes in this model year with 308 rear end gears (gutless).

[Chvywolf]

And I just looked up the cam offered in summit, part numbers EDL-7102, this is the specs from summit:
Chevrolet: 262-400, 308 intake/318 exhaust duration, Performer RPM, hydraulic, cam and lifter kit

This Performer RPM camshaft has more lift and duration than most street cams but still has acceptable low-end torque and 10 to 12 inches of vacuum at idle. This makes it the ideal choice for higher compression street/strip engines where a mild rough idle is acceptable.
You can't run this cam and expect to use the stock computer or brakes. Your heads won't support the power band and i don't think your stall converter will either. You need to do some reading about your car before you make a big mistake. That is a cam for a highly modified engine of which you do not have. I can probably count the number of people in this club on one hand that do have an engine capable of using it.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you really need to research this. Find out what will work best. Feel free to ask questions, that’s why we are here. But you need to look up stuff on your own, learn a little about your car, engine, specs, what it can handle and what it can't.

[Buckshot]

Well, what do ya think I'm doing....Thats why I asked the questions.............can you offer me another source of information that I can follow up on research with?

Thanks for the feed back guys....I'll let you know how the cam works out....or not......

[Chvywolf]

Go to comp, lunati, or crane's website and look at the cam description. It will tell you what it's application is for. But you also need to read tech articles, facts board, thirgen.org is a great place for facts and tech info. We have some here as well. Get a GM high tech, or Chevy High Performance Magazine, they have great articles on stuff like this. I really hope you can make that cam work with your car. Good luck.

[WS6 VERT]

What exactly is your goal????
Depending on what you want, and how you want to achieve it makes a big difference.

A "too small" of a cam, is actually better than "too big" of a cam. If the cam is way to big, drivablity will suffer, if there is any at all, and the power will just not be there. I don't like the idea of constanly changing cams, but a good "starter cam", IMHO, is the ZZ4 cam. I have one in my 357, and it pulls great vacuum, very computer friendly, and I pulled a 13.5 @ 103 MPH w/ STOCK TB and Runners, and very little PROM burning.

[Jeremey]

Since we have already established the cam wont work, and I am sure most will agree the B&M shift kit isnt a good choice either, I say send your shipment back as soon as you get it. The best choice in shift kits are Trans-go.

[WS6 VERT]

OH NO!!! I didn't even notice the Hypercrap and the B&M!!! I have no "track" experience w/ Hypertech, but having seeing there code from personal chips, I'm not very impressed. Thats why I would rather spend a little extra money and burn my own.

Having actual experiance with many TransGo installations, I feel it is the best kit to get.

I'm not trying to tell you what to, and not to get, I'm just relaying my experiences. Good luck, and don't be shy if you need help, thats the whole point of us being here! :D

[Rumblin91]

On comp cams's website they have a "cam card" you can actually fill out. It asks about the specs of your motor, and what you want from it. Then they tell you a good cam choice.

[starbuck]

99% of people will tell you B&M kits are crap.
I'm the 1% that wont.
I had a B&M transpak installed in my old 91 Z28 and it served me well, it would bark the tires like hell, and never gave me any problems.

[WS6 VERT]

Originally posted by Mister .44:
and never gave me any problems.minus the busted band... But I don't think it was all the shift kits fault, it at all.

[Skweezn87]

I have had a B&M transpak... and it was nice.. firm shifts/snappy.. but the TransGo is hands down the best out there today....

On the cam... make a goal.. one thats "within reach" and then go pick a cam...for what you have picked your goal to be...

Rick

[92Camaro305TBI]

OK, I want 300 horse power at the Wheels, What do I need guys:)

No really. Isn't it possible to make good HP with just a new cam(depending on if it is the right one!), Wouldn't he/we (with the LO3) need new/reworked heads?

And if he got better heads. Wouldn't that cam work or am I way off. Just poking around don't flame me or whatever you call it!

[ May 02, 2002, 16:44: Message edited by: 92Camaro305TBI ]

[86IROC]

Originally posted by 92Camaro305TBI:
OK, I want 300 horse power at the Wheels, What do I need guys:)

No really. Isn't it possible to make good HP with just a new cam(depending on if it is the right one!), Wouldn't he/we (with the LO3) need new/reworked heads?

And if he got better heads. Wouldn't that cam work or am I way off. Just poking around don't flame me or whatever you call it!First things first....300 HP at the tires with what motor? Your L03? The only way I think you could get 300RWHP out of an L03 is with nitrous. A cam swap in an essentially stock car will not do much. It's a lot of work for the mild gain. You could do heads, cam, etc. - & then the TBI would hold you back. The small bore of the 305 is doing nothing for you either. Some people have done great things with TBI, and in no way am I trying to discourage you. But, 300 HP at the tires with an L03 sounds a bit far fetched.

[Chvywolf]

It can be done. Use a set of L31 vortec truck heads, or a set of World S/R Torqure 305 heads with a cam that isn't that wild, maybe an LT4 hot cam, and ditch the TBI for a miniram or Millican LT1 intake, and a good exhaust. That may get you close. Prolly 270-280 at the wheels with an auto. Then you could run a small 100 shot. Then you would be there for sure.

That’s just one possible way to get it. May be the cheaper if you ditch the whole TBI for carb but I’ve been down that road. Never again. But I’m also not a fan of TBI. It does alright. But it was used because it was a cheap EFI system that could be mass produced. Not for performance.

[RacerX]

My B&M shift kit has been in the car for 3 yrs, and Ive never had any problems that didnt exsist before it was installed.

[92Camaro305TBI]

Originally posted by chvywolf:
It can be done. Use a set of L31 vortec truck heads, or a set of World S/R Torqure 305 heads with a cam that isn't that wild, maybe an LT4 hot cam, and ditch the TBI for a miniram or Millican LT1 intake, and a good exhaust. That may get you close. Prolly 270-280 at the wheels with an auto. Then you could run a small 100 shot. Then you would be there for sure.

That’s just one possible way to get it. May be the cheaper if you ditch the whole TBI for carb but I’ve been down that road. Never again. But I’m also not a fan of TBI. It does alright. But it was used because it was a cheap EFI system that could be mass produced. Not for performance.Thats the spirit, So that'll help with that cam if you want to use it buddy! I am in no way lookin gto make 300HP from my car anyway. I said "No really". I've heard too many story about the TBI or Lo3, Plus I'm no where near experianced/rich enough to try. hense I am hear learning from my fellow third genners. I just wanted to comment on the "not for performance." Statement. I agree, My car just made 23 miles per gallon on the last tank. And I looked good driving the whole time driving smile.gif

Thanks for the help with that cam/head setup.

[ May 02, 2002, 19:07: Message edited by: 92Camaro305TBI ]

[Jeremey]

The LSA on that cam is around 106 or 108 if I remember right. A fuel injected engine needs an LSA around 114 to operate correctly. That cam has a rough idle due to lots of overlap. If you want a cam that will work much better check out Crane. They make a wide selection of cams that work really well with computers.
As for the B&M kit, I too have had one. After shattering the sunshell, the tranny guy told me the B&M kit is to blame. I have also heard other people saying the same thing. I no longer care for B&M shift kits. From what I have been told Trans-go makes the best.

[WS6 VERT]

Originally posted by 92Camaro305TBI:
My car just made 23 miles per gallon on the last tank. And I looked good driving the whole time driving smile.gif

On the way up to, and back from Reynolds, I pulled an average of 19.6 MPG w/ my TPI'd 357.

[Chvywolf]

Haha, That is one thing I have you beat on Bernard. 22.8 mpg. :D

[WS6 VERT]

I think 3 MPG is a fair trade off for 1.4 seconds!!! I never dreamed my motor would run so well and still have "just as good as" gas mileage as the 305. That waste of space was just holding me back....

[Chvywolf]

Its 3.2 MPG and I agree with you. I'd trade it in a heartbeat.

[87kevroc]

Buckshot,

There's a lot of info out there on cams, here's a couple of links that may be useful.

Camshaft Selection (http://www.amotion.com/tech/camselect.html)

This one's specifically about TBI mods, and the guy that wrote the article is really proud of his TBI.

Modfying the 5.0 Lite L03 TBI V8 (http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/modthel03.html)

[Chvywolf]

That guy put a lot of work into that LO3 article. I think it would be more helpful however if his cam specs were accurate. I don't think GM made a 307/311 duration "peanut cam" and the LT4 hot cam he has listed as 203/210 when it is actually 218/228. Also, there is a difference between the LG4 and the L03 that he didn't mention. The LG4 came with a flat tappet cam, and the LO3 came with a roller cam.

Other than that, it seems to be a good article. Not liking TBI for performance is a personal opinion. But like he said in his article,

TBI is a jack of all trades EFI where TPI is a specialist and you didn't find TBI in a Corvette after TPI was introduced [edit: forgot to put the after part in]. But like I said, it is an opinion, the main theme of this post was camshafts. If the guy had accurate info, then it would be a great place to start. I do like the top link though. Seems to be well put together and accurate.

Ok, I’ve put my .02cents in enough. I’m going to shut up now.

[ May 02, 2002, 22:56: Message edited by: chvywolf ]

[WS6 VERT]

Actually, the CFI (cross fire injection) was a "dual TBI" setup, aka the TBI400.

And the '87 LG4's came w/ a roller cam and an intank electric fuel pump. I know, I have one...

[Rumblin91]

On the way up to, and back from Reynolds, I pulled an average of 19.6 MPG w/ my TPI'd 357 Oh yeah buddy, the CARBED ZZ4 got 26.2 mpg on the trip graemlins/hump.gif graemlins/hump.gif graemlins/hump.gif take that TPI!!! http://www.fbody.com/members/Rumblin91/fingersmiley.gif

J/K (not about the gas mileage though)

[WS6 VERT]

Originally posted by Rumblin91:
[QUOTE]Oh yeah buddy, the CARBED ZZ4 got 26.2 mpg on the trip graemlins/hump.gif graemlins/hump.gif graemlins/hump.gif take that TPI!!! http://www.fbody.com/members/Rumblin91/fingersmiley.gif

J/K (not about the gas mileage though)So what do you want: A medal, or a chest to pin one on?!?!?! graemlins/roll.gif

Seriously, thats awesome. Put a "750 double pumper" or whatever the hell you carb guys call them and see if its still 26!!!!!

[Rumblin91]

So what do you want: A medal, or a chest to pin one on?!?!?! Ouch! That's it B, I'm hitting the gym and you are going to quiver in your boots when I come up there for the Water festival

[86IROC]

Originally posted by Rumblin91:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />So what do you want: A medal, or a chest to pin one on?!?!?! Ouch! That's it B, I'm hitting the gym and you are going to quiver in your boots when I come up there for the Water festival</font>[/QUOTE]^ graemlins/roll.gif Riiight!!! Better get on some "juice" Aaron, and I'm not talking about the car.

[WS6 VERT]

Hahahaaa, better get some "stacker" or something... graemlins/roll.gif

[LL6]

chvywolf the 203/210 cam is just the OE LT4 cam.

As far as fuel mileage, my rich running beast pulled down 25 mpg with the cruise stuck at 80 mph the entire way. :D

[starbuck]

I averaged 22mpg from here to wisconsin and back two weeks ago. I've got an auto though.

[Chvywolf]

LL6: I know it's the OE cam, I just forgot to lable it as such. But the guy has it listed as the "HOT" cam and doesn't mention the OE. Thanks for the reminder.

[Rumblin91]

http://www.fbody.com/members/Rumblin91/homergun.art

[irocbsa]

I'd like to see how much my gas mileage dropped after the 350 swap. The old L03 would get very close to 30 mpg on the interstate. Not too shabby.

[Rumblin91]

Really?? My ZZ4 does better than the LO3 did

[92Camaro305TBI]

My Gas milage was about half interstate half city. With for a v8 I thought it was pretty good. Anyway! back to the cam selection!

Quoted "The LSA on that cam is around 106 or 108 if I remember right. A fuel injected engine needs an LSA around 114 to operate correctly. That cam has a rough idle due to lots of overlap." Jeremey

From what I've read and I'm not doubting you, Just wandering. I thought the idea LSA should be around 112 for good idle and good performance? Or are these numbers so close it doesn't even matter? :confused:

[Hammer]

Buckshot, I have to agree with the rest of these guys, the RPM cam is WAY too large for your application. Sell the farm, and buy this cam:part # CL12-231-2 the specs are:206*/214*.... .432"/.453" , this is a killer torque cam made by Comp Cams. Trust me, you'll be needin' new tires :D ....even with your 305!
cost for C/L kit: $160.00
-Hammer-

[ May 03, 2002, 17:22: Message edited by: Hammer ]

[Jeremey]

It all depends on what you want to do. That Edelbrock cam has a lsa of around 106/108. It is intended to be used with a carburator. The cam in my firebird has a lsa of 106 and it has a very lumpy idle. It doesnt clear up until around 2000 rpm. A computer controlled engine needs the lsa around 112 or 114 for the smooth idle. Dont get me wrong I have run the Edelbrock rpm cam before and it makes good power with the right componets, namly a carburator. Besides we are talking about a 305 which will make that big cam seem huge. Check out Cranecams.com or Compcams.com. They both make great cams specifically for computer controlled engines.