ZZ4 worth it??

[Rebelord]

Hey Y'all. BTW, yes I'm back from the boat.
I really need to get rid of this wimpy 305 TBI. I could only pull a best of 16.13@86mph. With headers and exhaust. I was looking at the ZZ4 motors, do you guys that have them think there worth it? I could live with 355hp 405tq for a bit. Yes i would just go with carb until i muster the money for an Accel DFI kit. But thats way in the future. I have every suspension mod there can be. I have 3.42s w/Eaton posi now. But needs to be installed. Tranny got a shift kit. If you think the ZZ4 is worth it thats what I'm going with. Thanks.

Ski

[LL6]

I bought the ZZ4 shortblock. Quality such as the honing was excellent. There are zero other components, though. I had to buy (or swap from my orignal engine) everything from the front cover to the oil pump and pan. On a positive note, you only get the forged crank with the shortblock, the longblock comes with a nodular iron crank...and since I already had TF heads it was a no-brainer.

BTW, Of current crate engines the HT383 is the engine that has my eye.

[Rebelord]

I was really eyeing the Fast Burn 385 but 4k is my budget for a new motor. I do know that other stuff will come along but thats always expected.
The FB385 is a nice little motor too.

[Rumblin91]

Yes it is worth it.

Mike, where did you get the info on the crank....I'm almost absolutely positive the ZZ4 long block comes with forged..

[89gta383]

I don't have a ZZ4, but my new stuff is at the machine shop being finished right now.

My machine work will be around $1,000. If you add a scat 9000 crank for $300, Eagle SIR rods for $250, and some TRW or other inexpensive forged piston for like $350, add rings and bearings and you could have a total of $2250 in the short block and it will be stronger than the ZZ4 and take more abuse. Even though the ZZ4 crank is forged, it is a 1053 forging, and for the price, the scat cast steel cranks are a better buy at almost half the price.

Not trying to beat down the ZZ4, but you can always beat the crate motor price by finding good deals on used parts. I've seen those cranks and rods go for like $200 on e-bay.

[Rebelord]

Ya, i was just looking around at different options. I found a company High-Teche Stroker motors out in Cali has some good deals. A 383 block and complete short block assembly for 1300 w/KB forged. Another company i can get pre'86 stage 2 heads with the works at 64cc for $575, intakes are only like 200 and a carb is like 400 for speed demon. I can build a decent little 383 for under 3500 going at that. Which is what i might do. hmm..gettin wild ideas now....

Ski

OK..who wants to help me with this thing??

[Pantera61]

Here are just a couple of ideas.

ZZ4 350 $3880
http://www.goautocenter.com/zz4_350.htm
This engine has TFS or Edelbrock. Your choice and comes with some other nifty stuff.

ZZ4 420hp $4380
http://www.goautocenter.com/zz4_420hp.htm
For just $380 you could be driving this around.
420hp and 425ft/lbs of torque. They also have vortec engines GEN II and GEN III, along with HO engines and bbc.

http://www.goautocenter.com/engines.htm

[irocbsa]

I was throwing around the idea of the ZZ4 for while and I decided against the lond block because it just didn't have enough for what I wanted. I think the long block is great for a carbed application (look at Aaron's car, could be running 13.5s if it wasn't for that damn T5 tranny :mad: ) but the cars I have seen with the ZZ4 that are running TPI are just barely getting into the 13s. And that's with a few other mods. I may be way off base but that's just what I've seen. Most likely in the future I will be getting the short block and using my TFS heads and my 262 cam.

[Rebelord]

those engines are nice and all. but my budget is 3500+/- little bit. so i really cant do that. like i said i only have the 305 and building a mild 350 would even make me happy. so..i need something. i feel like a mustang. :(

Ski

[irocbsa]

Originally posted by Rebelord:
i feel like a mustang. :( Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. smile.gif

Dude, you can build a SBC with that budget that will run circles around a 302 Mustang POS engine. Start a new topic asking what to do w/ $3500. Guarantee you'll get good advice.

[ June 25, 2002, 18:46: Message edited by: DenaliTech ]

[starbuck]

Rumbln, the longblock comes with the Nodular LT4 crank.

[86IROC]

GM crate motors are decent deals. Notice I didn't say "great" deals. If I was to do it all over again, I would buy a GM crate. Dealing w/ machine shops, wrong parts, etc. was a major PITA.

My personal experience w/ ZZ4 equipped cars has been good so far:

Case #1: 69' Nova SS, ZZ4 crate, 3310 holley carb, 3.73's, 3000 stall in a TH400, M/T 10" ET Drags, 1.75" LT's, 3" duals w/ flowmaster and dumps - 12.90's @ 105 right out of the crate.

Case #2: 1991 Z28, ZZ4 crate, Edelbrock TES, Flowmaster, stock 3.23's, BFG DR's - 13.40's @ 99 MPH.

Case #3: 1983 Z28, ZZ4 crate, 750 DP holley, 1.625" shorties w/ stock y-pipe, 2.5" cat back, 4.10's, 2500 11" stall, P275/60-15 BFG DR's - 12.97 @ 106+

I'm sorry, but 12.90's is honking for a basic $3400 crate motor w/ small valves and a modest HR cam.

But, I am a fan of cubic inches - so... like LL6, I too like the HT383 crate engine. I know if my motor ever pops, I will be buying an HT383 and tossing on my top end parts.

[89gta383]

A friend with an 88 IROC put one in his car with the only change being a miniram and headers, and it ran 13.0's at 108 mph.

I never said it wasn't a decent runner, I've seen it myself. Just for the total price of the ZZ4, you can get some decent heads, like Trick flows or fast burns, and build a good bottom end for the same price and make more power. Nothing wrong with used parts. Half my damn car has used parts.

[RobP]

By a used LT1 :D

[james85z28]

here's what I did and would do again.

But the caprice long block engine for $1500. It has a roller valevetrain, 9.6:1 CR with 64 cc heads, LT4 bottom end, and is all new. The get the heads you want. I got edelbrocks for $1050. Then get the ZZ4 cam for $175. Gaskets and other stuff for <$100. Then sell the new heads off the crate for $250, who wouldn't want new GM heads for $250? Cost for ZZ4-type engine = $2575. Everything is new and a $1000 less than a crate ZZ4. The new ZZ4s do have a steel crank but with TPI you'll never see the power at the RPMs that would require one.

[WS6 VERT]

I posted in the Picture Post what you need.... graemlins/devil.gif

[RobP]

Rebelord, seriously, I always kid about the LT1 thing but I've been in a 6spd LT1 equipped 92 Camaro and that car flat-out rocked! And that was before the guy hit the 100 shot of nitrous.
I have also taken a ride in John Millican's 383 and it really proves the no replacement for displacement theory. My ZZ4TPI runs hard but I felt a big difference in John's 383. That was when he had a stock TPI on top. I can only imagine how it runs with the LT1 upgrade. I guess the ZZ4 is a pretty solid starting point with future upgrades possible (LT4 hotcam/1.6rr/better heads) Remember, that 355Hp and 400+ft/lb of torque came with a big carb, headers, no exhaust. You will loose HP with the TPI set up.

[Rebelord]

Hey!! I am not going with TPI here. I'm going to be putting on a carb. I found an article on the 383 kit that I'm looking at. They peiced it together and got some good numbers out of it. And if you ad up all that cost of the parts its little bit less than 3500. So all I need to do is make a few calls and i should have atleast the short block coming soon.

[LL6]

Originally posted by 86IROC:
GM crate motors are decent deals. Notice I didn't say "great" deals. If I was to do it all over again, I would buy a GM crate. Dealing w/ machine shops, wrong parts, etc. was a major PITA.This is something else that I didn't even consider with this question, yet it very much figures into the equation. If you don't have a good hookup, then crate is the safer way to go. Good machine shops can want upwards of $3000 for a good shortblock (~$1895 ZZ4 shortblock). I'm not too sure what corners the budget shops cut to offer the exceptional prices you see in the magazines and internet, but in the end they might be no better than if you just bought a crate engine...

[Rebelord]

http://www.streetrodderweb.com/archive/tech/0502_tech01.shtml

Thats an article about the company that i will be getting the short block from. Let me know what you think.

Ski

[LL6]

Haven't heard of them.

http://www.nu-tekmotorsports.com/ seems to be everyone's darling right now. They are doing such quality work at reasonable prices that GMHTP solicited for customer responses on CZ.C and is planning on doing a story.

Edit: Read the article more in depth...

Don't see a price. This sounds like a budget long block, hopefully the price reflects that...

IMO I think I would spring for forged rather than hypereutectic pistons. If you plan on any power adder, then forged is what you will need to begin with. S/R nothing on my engine. graemlins/sick.gif S/R stands for stock replacement. They hardly flow better than stock and in the end you're still stuck with a set of cast iron heads. :(

[ June 26, 2002, 12:18: Message edited by: LL6 ]

[WS6 VERT]

Another great thing about GM Crate engines is the warranty. Just ask Britton about the warranty. When he had a problem, he called GM and there was a new one on its way... ;)

[Metal God]

WHat are the specs on the zz4 camshaft?

[Jeremey]

Just another option here. My last engine worth mentioning was a pretty much stock bottom end. I used a factory crank and rods, TRW L2256 flat top pistons, and Holley's Systemax 2 kit. The short block was a .030 over block with the TRWs, the crank turned .010/.010, and the rods resized. Nothing really fancy at all. The Holley kit came with aluminum heads, cam and lifters with break in lube, timing set, intake, and head bolts. All I really bought was a carb, rockers, and gaskets. I bet I could build this engine again well under $2,000 right now. Best of all, the car went low low 12s with this exact engine. :D

Man I am kicking myself in the a$$ for selling it. :(

[ December 15, 2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Jeremey ]

[Rumblin91]

IIRC,

474/510 int/ex lift (I'm pretty sure these are right)
208/221 int/ex duration (@ .050) (not so sure about the exhaust duration)

[86IROC]

You would be right on the money Aaron, but left out the 112LSA part. ;)

[Rumblin91]

:mad: ****it, I can never get it right.
smile.gif

[LL6]

Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead... graemlins/blink.gif

[Jeremey]

Man, I didnt even relize this thread was so old. graemlins/cyclops.gif

[iroczinoz]

Anyone know anything on the following engine builder??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2461051579

[WS6 VERT]

Well, they have 81 Feedbacks, and 100% of them are positive. You can't see what they bought, but some do mention they bought engines. Looking at the pictures, it seems like they do alot of business and have a decent sized shop.

If the warranty (if any) is good, and it comes with a DYNO SHEET (and not just a desktop dyno guess), then I would say its a good price.

[LL6]

Originally posted by LL6:
Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead... graemlins/blink.gif May I re-quote myself. tongue.gif

[WS6 VERT]

Originally posted by LL6:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by LL6:
Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead... graemlins/blink.gif May I re-quote myself. tongue.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Good info never dies.... :cool:

[Eric]

1- Good information truly never dies.

2-What ever became of Rebelord and his proposed engine??? (voice of William Shatner as host of "Unsolved Mysteries")

Eric